There were some good bits, some really good people, saturday nite services, great kids ministry and good sound systems.
But it was all about the experience. Alot of show. An unhealthy disregard for solid theology.
The thing that has dissappointed me most is the lack of transparency, accountability, the lack of compliance with scripture, the 'showiness' of the whole thing - and the dodginess of the handling of money from collection through to the Pastors own "inc" companies via the lucrative speaking circuit.
Do a search on Marjoe Gortner and you will see what can happen.
Mind you my own faith in Christ - which transcends Church and people has grown much stronger. Leaders who I considered "arms-length" mentors (or authentic men of God) have been reduced to nothing...which means I can see the Ideal in Christ much more clearly, my own fallibility - but also the confience and courage to be my own man (lead myself in Christ).
Augustine (I think) said something along the lines of the church is a whore and our mother.
Unattractive, flawed yet how can we reject her?
I was saddened to read (if I read correctly) you've rejected church altogether. No church is perfect, but likely there would be something that contrasts you're previous bad experience?
This may be an overly personal question (if which case tell me to shove it I won't mind) but how will you kids cope sans church?
some people think the ends justifies the means. some people think that if its done in God's name its ok. some people are desperate to do their own thing and put Gods name to it...
I appreciate your response and your encouragement, and also that of others who have emailed me to share their own views and experiences from a variety of contemporary Churches. This helps to let me know that I am not alone - and I am not going nuts!.
After coming from a Lutheran Church, I was attracted by the dynamic preaching, the large community, the music, the great people and the kid’s ministry. These are all great things about the Contemporary church.
The Lutheran Church is much less ‘dynamic’ – but it does pay attention to the detail ie. being diligent about the finer points of theology, presenting detailed financials, including clergy remuneration and benefits as well as ensuring democratic leadership at a local church level.
I guess these things are important – as “the devil is in the detail”.
I hope that the government does not need to step in to regulate religion / churches in this country. But in an environment where perception is reality and where anyone can obtain a certificate level qualification from any Bible college (or worse none), get a warehouse, a great sound system and “start a Church” – then maybe some level of regulated code of conduct and accountability is required to protect the interests of spiritual consumers. The media is certainly stepping into the role of ‘watch-dog’ – it’s a pity, because Churches above any organisation should be ‘above reproach’ – an example to us all. A lighthouse…perhaps.
I have made comment before, that the three things that are closest to the heart of any person are their spirituality, their relationships with people and their finances.
People get hurt when people are manipulated or abused at any one of these levels. When you are talking about religious organisations – all three are brought into a ‘mix’ which is a recipe for dynamite. Just look at what can happen in the case of Marjoe Gortner or any of the cultic groups.
Generally in these groups there is emotional and spiritual manipulation – and leadership living a different class of lifestyle to the broader congregation.
Like you, I hope that the Church does change. Let’s hope that these groups do get their act together – for the sake of the reputation and integrity of Christian faith and for the welfare of their congregations.
10 comments:
Its alot like Luna Park, Kieren.
There were some good bits, some really good people, saturday nite services, great kids ministry and good sound systems.
But it was all about the experience. Alot of show. An unhealthy disregard for solid theology.
The thing that has dissappointed me most is the lack of transparency, accountability, the lack of compliance with scripture, the 'showiness' of the whole thing - and the dodginess of the handling of money from collection through to the Pastors own "inc" companies via the lucrative speaking circuit.
Do a search on Marjoe Gortner and you will see what can happen.
Mind you my own faith in Christ - which transcends Church and people has grown much stronger. Leaders who I considered "arms-length" mentors (or authentic men of God) have been reduced to nothing...which means I can see the Ideal in Christ much more clearly, my own fallibility - but also the confience and courage to be my own man (lead myself in Christ).
Hi Lionfish.
Augustine (I think) said something along the lines of the church is a whore and our mother.
Unattractive, flawed yet how can we reject her?
I was saddened to read (if I read correctly) you've rejected church altogether. No church is perfect, but likely there would be something that contrasts you're previous bad experience?
This may be an overly personal question (if which case tell me to shove it I won't mind) but how will you kids cope sans church?
Just a question. Blessings.
Thanks Bruce.
I shoud rewrite "Post-Chuch...for a while".
I'm sure we will end up in a regular local church before to long.
Like I said, tell me to shove it if it's off the mark :)
Hi Ramjet,
Thanks for sharing your views. Its good to know that some people are thinking for a change - not just following.
You ask some good questions.
I'm a little busy at present - and will answer in a little more detail in a few days. :-)
kieren (KO is easier :-))
the contempory church can be summed up by the fact that they can come up with this
http://www.smh.com.au/news/unusual-tales/wrestling-with-god/2006/01/30/1138590441914.html
some people think the ends justifies the means. some people think that if its done in God's name its ok. some people are desperate to do their own thing and put Gods name to it...
Ramjet,
I appreciate your response and your encouragement, and also that of others who have emailed me to share their own views and experiences from a variety of contemporary Churches. This helps to let me know that I am not alone - and I am not going nuts!.
After coming from a Lutheran Church, I was attracted by the dynamic preaching, the large community, the music, the great people and the kid’s ministry. These are all great things about the Contemporary church.
The Lutheran Church is much less ‘dynamic’ – but it does pay attention to the detail ie. being diligent about the finer points of theology, presenting detailed financials, including clergy remuneration and benefits as well as ensuring democratic leadership at a local church level.
I guess these things are important – as “the devil is in the detail”.
I hope that the government does not need to step in to regulate religion / churches in this country. But in an environment where perception is reality and where anyone can obtain a certificate level qualification from any Bible college (or worse none), get a warehouse, a great sound system and “start a Church” – then maybe some level of regulated code of conduct and accountability is required to protect the interests of spiritual consumers. The media is certainly stepping into the role of ‘watch-dog’ – it’s a pity, because Churches above any organisation should be ‘above reproach’ – an example to us all. A lighthouse…perhaps.
I have made comment before, that the three things that are closest to the heart of any person are their spirituality, their relationships with people and their finances.
People get hurt when people are manipulated or abused at any one of these levels. When you are talking about religious organisations – all three are brought into a ‘mix’ which is a recipe for dynamite. Just look at what can happen in the case of Marjoe Gortner or any of the cultic groups.
Generally in these groups there is emotional and spiritual manipulation – and leadership living a different class of lifestyle to the broader congregation.
Like you, I hope that the Church does change. Let’s hope that these groups do get their act together – for the sake of the reputation and integrity of Christian faith and for the welfare of their congregations.
Thanks Ramjet.
I understand exactly where you are coming from re 'vocation' and sense of calling.
You state - "Well, times are changing, Christians are discussing issues openly and church leadership, well I'd like to think they have an open ear".
This is my prayer also.
Ramjet -
Also re extent of corruption in your company...its amazing what people can get away with for so long - even when there are 'official' auditors. ;-)
Ramjet,
It IS just about over for me...
If you really want to know please email me. :-)
clan.mackenzie@bigpond.com
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